Chuli & Miae 1993 (Freestyle Tuesday)
Jan. 8th, 2013 11:20 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
koganbotHope to post about GLAM in the near future, as they're Socially Important in a good way, and not just because they copy or sample a vocal curlicue from the Cover Girls. But it's that curlicue which is the subject of this post, since, from the way GLAM use it, I'm pretty sure they got it not directly from "Because Of You," but by way of "Why You," a 1993 track by Chuli & Miae (철이 와 미애).
For a couple of years now I've been hammering in the point about K-pop drawing on freestyle, though not hammering with a lot of ideas, just the fact of the influence. (For more hammering, here's my freestyle tag.*) But "Why You" isn't merely influence, it's the thing itself, a Korean track that's out-and-out freestyle. It isn't only freestyle, though. In fact, it's very 1993 (as opposed to 1988), unequivocably freestyle while employing an int'l house mashup strategy. Pretty interesting and doesn't quite match anything I ever heard in the U.S. It starts with the Cover Girls curlicue on repeat,** the vocal riff seeming to call across an oceanic distance. This drifts into poignant house atmospherics, then a properly twisting freestyle riff, setting up a talk-rap that isn't trying to sound hip-hop, while the Cover Girls curlicue is cut up and inserted in little bits, and shards of Korean singing punctuate the rapping. Finally, the singing takes center stage, coalescing into an unabashed freestyle melody directly in the Mickey Garcia/Elvin Molina style of mournful NYC melodies circa 1989 — this all in the first minute and a quarter.
*Freestyle is one of the names given to a Latino dance music style that came out of Miami and New York in the '80s, the Miami version using a lighter touch and being more interracial, the NY version being heavily, dolorously Latino, but both sites drawing massively on the Robie-Baker electrofunk used by DJ Afrika Bambaataa & Soul Sonic Force's "Planet Rock." Freestyle added twisting intertwining riffs and wild beats, with New York City bringing melodies of deep and passionate sadness.
**I'm calling it a curlicue 'cause I don't know if it's a direct sample or a copy, but there's no question where it's from. Btw, it was Brad Nelson over on ilX who alerted us to the Cover Girls being the source of the curlicue in GLAM's "I Like That," crediting Maura Johnston with recognizing it. A couple people over on omonatheydidnt also recognized it, and that's where someone linked Chuli & Miae, though without any information. Over at allkpop, the writers haven't yet caught on to the Cover Girls connection but say that "I Like That" "modernizes the '90s K-pop classic, Chul-E & Miae's 'Why You,' with its hip-hop sound." This isn't true; "I Like That" simply lifts the bit that "Why You" previously lifted from the Cover Girls' "Because Of You," while otherwise being a very different song.
For a couple of years now I've been hammering in the point about K-pop drawing on freestyle, though not hammering with a lot of ideas, just the fact of the influence. (For more hammering, here's my freestyle tag.*) But "Why You" isn't merely influence, it's the thing itself, a Korean track that's out-and-out freestyle. It isn't only freestyle, though. In fact, it's very 1993 (as opposed to 1988), unequivocably freestyle while employing an int'l house mashup strategy. Pretty interesting and doesn't quite match anything I ever heard in the U.S. It starts with the Cover Girls curlicue on repeat,** the vocal riff seeming to call across an oceanic distance. This drifts into poignant house atmospherics, then a properly twisting freestyle riff, setting up a talk-rap that isn't trying to sound hip-hop, while the Cover Girls curlicue is cut up and inserted in little bits, and shards of Korean singing punctuate the rapping. Finally, the singing takes center stage, coalescing into an unabashed freestyle melody directly in the Mickey Garcia/Elvin Molina style of mournful NYC melodies circa 1989 — this all in the first minute and a quarter.
*Freestyle is one of the names given to a Latino dance music style that came out of Miami and New York in the '80s, the Miami version using a lighter touch and being more interracial, the NY version being heavily, dolorously Latino, but both sites drawing massively on the Robie-Baker electrofunk used by DJ Afrika Bambaataa & Soul Sonic Force's "Planet Rock." Freestyle added twisting intertwining riffs and wild beats, with New York City bringing melodies of deep and passionate sadness.
**I'm calling it a curlicue 'cause I don't know if it's a direct sample or a copy, but there's no question where it's from. Btw, it was Brad Nelson over on ilX who alerted us to the Cover Girls being the source of the curlicue in GLAM's "I Like That," crediting Maura Johnston with recognizing it. A couple people over on omonatheydidnt also recognized it, and that's where someone linked Chuli & Miae, though without any information. Over at allkpop, the writers haven't yet caught on to the Cover Girls connection but say that "I Like That" "modernizes the '90s K-pop classic, Chul-E & Miae's 'Why You,' with its hip-hop sound." This isn't true; "I Like That" simply lifts the bit that "Why You" previously lifted from the Cover Girls' "Because Of You," while otherwise being a very different song.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2013-01-09 11:08 am (UTC)Perhaps Bang Si Hyuk (GLAM's producer) isn't even aware that he was sampling a sample...
no subject
Date: 2013-01-09 04:08 pm (UTC)Returning to our untrustworthy friend Wikipedia, "Big Hit Entertainment" is a subsection under "JYP Entertainment." Both GLAM and 8Eight are listed as artists, but 8Eight, unlike GLAM, has the note "left the company (2012)." The Wikip entry for 8Eight identifies their label as Source Music, which gets no entry on its own. Wikip's list of Korean Idol Groups puts Big Hit Entertainment and Source Music as GLAM's label. Finally, Allkpop told us last May, "On May 25th, Big Hit Entertainment announced that 'GLAM' will be making their debut on July 16th in collaboration with Source Music. 8Eight and Kan Mi Yeon are housed under Source Music, while 2AM is under Big Hit Entertainment. For the past three years, the two companies have been working together to produce GLAM." And "hitman" Bang offers these happy words: "I actually feel sorry calling GLAM a girl group because they have genuine musical talent and passion. As opposed to producing them, it's more accurate to say that I helped them realize their hidden musical potential and helped them foster that as a partner by their side."
So, I can't tell if Source Music is an independent entity that collaborates with Big Hit or a subsidiary of something, ultimately under JYP. And that's where I'll leave it, as I now kinda like need to stop gallivanting around the Web for the rest of today.
Speaking of T-ara — and when am I not finding a way to speak of T-ara — "hitman" Bang wrote "Like The First Time," one of my very favorite T-ara tracks. My little bit of shuffling about in the rest of his oeuvre gives me a lot of sap that doesn't interest me, though I should probably go and search more. I like the rhythm but not the melody for "Party(XXO)." "I Like That" hits me as better, though I'm not sure yet how much better. We'll see in a few days how many points I give it. To further confuse matters, GLAM's leader, Park Jiyeon, has the same name as T-ara's biggest star, Park Jiyeon.
*Wikipedia isn't yet on the case for GLAM, and Generasia gives only sparse information and no sources and may not be up-to-date.
no subject
Date: 2013-01-09 08:22 pm (UTC)I wondered why Big Hit Entertainment would use Loen as their distributor if they're a branch of JYP, but and Wikipedia says that Loen Music is distributor for JYP as well. It was actually the fact that both Loen and JYP both put English subtitles on their videos that led me to look for a connection.
P.S. You might know this already, but GLAM member Dahee's voice was sampled for the first Korean Vocaloid, SeeU. Here's SeeU's demo song "I=Fantasy", produced and co-written by none other than Bang Si Hyuk:
...the original teaser for which sneakily included Dahee on backing vocals:
And here are GLAM covering it as a fanmeeting. Note that ex-member Trinity is singing, unlike in "Party XXO":
no subject
Date: 2013-01-09 09:31 pm (UTC)"I get that, but it seems seeU is the only one who did the dance, 'right.'
i=fantasy is not a sexual song, (as most people see it)
GLAM, by there dancing makes it seems that way. Not that they didn't do a great job."
and
"I like Glam and all, but can SeeU's Hologram/Projection perform without them for once? They block Her alot and the camra stays on them rather than her for a good bit of the videos. no flame please I like Glam but honestly.."
Links for David's embeds
Date: 2019-06-05 01:42 am (UTC)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kammMNzrV4Y
Here's the link for the SV01 SeeU 4th Demo-song M/V:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luWgq7_ZgnY
Here's the one with Dahee on backing vocals:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td3s0aAqnUY
And here's a fancam of Glam's live cover of SeeU's "Fantasy":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd26DqjiHUo
no subject
Date: 2013-01-09 12:04 pm (UTC)Yubin and Sohee cross and uncross their arms
Date: 2013-01-09 05:56 pm (UTC)Link for David's embed:
Date: 2019-06-05 01:51 am (UTC)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N28vLijnyJ0
And unfortunately MBC killed my embed of the Yubin & Sohee version.
no subject
Date: 2013-01-09 09:36 pm (UTC)Actually, I am on Tumblr
Date: 2013-01-16 06:36 pm (UTC)I'm being deliberately vague.
Also, I want people to come to me, now. I mean that metaphorically as well as literally. (More vagueness.)
I'm on Facebook too but refuse to friend anybody, except when doing so is the only way to view a particular community or to get on Turntable FM.
http://koganbot.tumblr.com
http://twitter.com/koganbot
And here I was on MySpace, which is in the process of remaking itself into oblivion. I should post some new links from there to here, in case anyone's still looking.
http://www.myspace.com/frankkogan
*I tended to follow by way of my RSS, which I now almost never look at.
Re: Actually, I am on Tumblr
Date: 2013-01-18 11:29 pm (UTC)We have different tumblr circles, but I think I might know what you mean. I'm not sure the platform and the culture are distinct from each other, though. The way I see it, Tumblr is easy, and because it's easy, it encourages people to write and act impulsively - whereas on this blog you tend to take a lot more time to think through your positions. The conversation on tumblr moves quickly, so the emphasis there is also on weighing in quickly with your two cents, or else risk missing out altogether.
That's if you are weighing in, and not reblogging something that struck you without necessarily committing to saying anything about it. Which is most of my friends, so I like tumblr as a way of finding new things.
I am also on Facebook and Twitter but only use them to message people who are hard to get a hold of in other ways.
And ha, this is my first time looking at a Myspace page in ages. It looks like last.fm now.
Re: Actually, I am on Tumblr
Date: 2013-01-20 10:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-01-12 07:40 am (UTC)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzfOTRh8Oj8#t=2h0m53s
From this I conclude that this is a fucking huge song in SK.
Freestyle ninjitsu?
Date: 2013-03-12 12:38 am (UTC)From 3 Ninjas Kick Back, produced (but not directed) by famous Korean film-maker Shin Sang-ok.
Hat tip to eehreum at reddit/r/jpop.
Re: Freestyle ninjitsu?
Date: 2013-03-12 10:35 am (UTC)I gather from the YouTube comments that use of the word "Ninja" is even more problematic than use of the song. I wouldn't know, since I understand little more than zero about the martial arts.
Btw, William Deluca, a guy saying he's Miae's husband, posts on that comment thread. According to his own YouTube page, she's now a dance teacher in New York City. He (or she, using his account) uploads vids of her dancing (on her own, with friends, and with students):
Er, they're not letting me embed with the right ratio. Go here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyXrmv9M56M
Re: Freestyle ninjitsu?
Date: 2013-03-12 11:51 am (UTC)From Miae's husband's channel, here's Miae teaching a student the ttaemiri dance, alas not with Why You.
And here's Miae rehearsing a dance routine for a remix of Why You that samples We No Speak Americano. No, really.
Why you no speak americano after school?
Date: 2013-03-12 12:18 pm (UTC)Re: Why you no speak americano after school?
Date: 2013-03-12 12:57 pm (UTC)Re: Freestyle ninjitsu?
Date: 2019-06-05 02:02 am (UTC)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FD30ODSPGxU
Here's Seo Taiji's "Nan Arayo" in the 3 Ninjas Kickback soundtrack:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYJ2PQ29tQc
Here's Miae teaching a student the ttaemiri dance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AUXvlQso6g
Here's Miae rehearsing the dance routine for the remix of Why You that samples We No Speak Americano:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkdvgnwQGSw
And here they are with Kahi of After School:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_nmXkSIJ04
no subject
Date: 2013-03-12 12:55 pm (UTC)"Nunun Wheh (Why You)"
Written by Seung Ho Lee and Jim Kim