How to pick up girls (Eng Sub)
Mar. 22nd, 2012 01:32 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
koganbotHyori trades banter with Big Bang on her variety show:
Part 1: http://youtu.be/AyZhMV6nJsY
Part 2: http://youtu.be/FH2lz4MoAjQ
She, co-host Jung Jae-hyung, and the boys are all quite personable, though even with subtitles I'm not understanding whole gobs of the interchange, due some to my not knowing the history, some to my not knowing the culture. But I do get that a hunk of what they're doing at the end is How To Pick Up Girls. And yeah, they're doing it for fun, and it's funny; but still, it's reminding me that these people are fundamentally mainstream and I'm not. (Or if one or more isn't/aren't fundamentally mainstream he/they are going along with it.*) I'm not averse to getting to know attractive women who happen to be passing by, including attractive mainstream women, and letting them know I'm potentially interested; but still, even though I can't totally put my finger on why, the how-to-pick-up-girls mentality epitomizes exactly what's mainstream about this clip and what's not mainstream about me. Maybe it's the assumption that this is our common ground. Or the assumption that we assume a common ground rather than discovering and creating it.
Of course, when various counterculture groups fundamentally go dead for me, and they all pretty much do, sooner or later — freak, punk, postpunk, indie-alternative, "poptimists," [your group name here] — it's exactly because they've gotten into a rut of assuming assumptions, e.g., assuming I'm like them more than I'm like Hyori. (See "The Death Of The Cool.") I don't assume that Hyori and I, for instance, or G-Dragon and I, etc., don't know how to find common ground. One common ground would be if they like to think about such things, about assumptions and how to test them. In 2006 Samsung was willing to postulate that Hyori seeks to see through a multiplicity of eyes.
Not related to this: at one point, Hyori mentions, in regard to a track that she and Daesung recorded, a plagiarism issue that for a time was a barrier to the two of them performing the song, but that she'd now worked out the copyright and they'd be singing it again in the future. What had happened was that for Hyori's H-Logic album, songwriter Bahnus simply ripped off seven overseas songs to sell to the label, the only major difference between his songs and the originals being that he'd substituted new Korean lyrics. It turned out this wasn't the first time he'd done such a thing. Rather astonishing, that he believed he could get away with it. Or maybe he knew he'd get caught, and was simply out of control. Calculating, he might be willing to chance that, e.g., no fan of Georgia Murray was ever going to hear Lee Hyori's "Swing" and no fans of Lee Hyori were also fans of Georgia Murray (and that no one was going to pick up on the Theodorakis riff that Murray sampled and Bahnus copied); but it was simply insane to assume that she and Jason Derülo had no listeners in common, and further that he could use the basic same title of the Derülo song "How Did We" (named "How Did We Get" in the Lee Hyori version, it being the song on which she and Daesung sang their duet) and copy the exact same Annie Lennox sample, and that no one would notice any resemblance. But I only know what Wikipedia says. Hyori seems totally blameless. Bahnus was not only sued by the label, he was convicted of forgery and fraud and sentenced to over a year (at least according to Wikip, though there's a "citation needed" on this).
None of this is meant to imply that I won't someday visit a Derülo YouTube thread in order to say "Lee Hyori brought me."
*Get the sense that Taeyang may not be totally on-board, either.
**[UPDATE: According to Wikip, "Bahnus" refers to Lee Jae-young but he also led a songwriting group, "Bahnus Vacuum"; the text isn't clear but it seems to be saying that Lee alone is responsible for the plagiarism.]
h/t Mat
Part 1: http://youtu.be/AyZhMV6nJsY
Part 2: http://youtu.be/FH2lz4MoAjQ
She, co-host Jung Jae-hyung, and the boys are all quite personable, though even with subtitles I'm not understanding whole gobs of the interchange, due some to my not knowing the history, some to my not knowing the culture. But I do get that a hunk of what they're doing at the end is How To Pick Up Girls. And yeah, they're doing it for fun, and it's funny; but still, it's reminding me that these people are fundamentally mainstream and I'm not. (Or if one or more isn't/aren't fundamentally mainstream he/they are going along with it.*) I'm not averse to getting to know attractive women who happen to be passing by, including attractive mainstream women, and letting them know I'm potentially interested; but still, even though I can't totally put my finger on why, the how-to-pick-up-girls mentality epitomizes exactly what's mainstream about this clip and what's not mainstream about me. Maybe it's the assumption that this is our common ground. Or the assumption that we assume a common ground rather than discovering and creating it.
Of course, when various counterculture groups fundamentally go dead for me, and they all pretty much do, sooner or later — freak, punk, postpunk, indie-alternative, "poptimists," [your group name here] — it's exactly because they've gotten into a rut of assuming assumptions, e.g., assuming I'm like them more than I'm like Hyori. (See "The Death Of The Cool.") I don't assume that Hyori and I, for instance, or G-Dragon and I, etc., don't know how to find common ground. One common ground would be if they like to think about such things, about assumptions and how to test them. In 2006 Samsung was willing to postulate that Hyori seeks to see through a multiplicity of eyes.
Not related to this: at one point, Hyori mentions, in regard to a track that she and Daesung recorded, a plagiarism issue that for a time was a barrier to the two of them performing the song, but that she'd now worked out the copyright and they'd be singing it again in the future. What had happened was that for Hyori's H-Logic album, songwriter Bahnus simply ripped off seven overseas songs to sell to the label, the only major difference between his songs and the originals being that he'd substituted new Korean lyrics. It turned out this wasn't the first time he'd done such a thing. Rather astonishing, that he believed he could get away with it. Or maybe he knew he'd get caught, and was simply out of control. Calculating, he might be willing to chance that, e.g., no fan of Georgia Murray was ever going to hear Lee Hyori's "Swing" and no fans of Lee Hyori were also fans of Georgia Murray (and that no one was going to pick up on the Theodorakis riff that Murray sampled and Bahnus copied); but it was simply insane to assume that she and Jason Derülo had no listeners in common, and further that he could use the basic same title of the Derülo song "How Did We" (named "How Did We Get" in the Lee Hyori version, it being the song on which she and Daesung sang their duet) and copy the exact same Annie Lennox sample, and that no one would notice any resemblance. But I only know what Wikipedia says. Hyori seems totally blameless. Bahnus was not only sued by the label, he was convicted of forgery and fraud and sentenced to over a year (at least according to Wikip, though there's a "citation needed" on this).
None of this is meant to imply that I won't someday visit a Derülo YouTube thread in order to say "Lee Hyori brought me."
*Get the sense that Taeyang may not be totally on-board, either.
**[UPDATE: According to Wikip, "Bahnus" refers to Lee Jae-young but he also led a songwriting group, "Bahnus Vacuum"; the text isn't clear but it seems to be saying that Lee alone is responsible for the plagiarism.]
h/t Mat
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no subject
Date: 2012-03-22 07:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-03-22 07:59 pm (UTC)Bobby O "How To Pick Up Girls"
Date: 2019-07-17 07:40 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-03-22 08:59 pm (UTC)You can probably make it on Hyori and her singer/songwriter (he did 'L'amant' for IU's album) co-host's show, though, where the atmosphere is relaxed (part 1 and 4 of that subbed episode, if you're interested: http://youtu.be/ppVC-7nouYQ, http://youtu.be/5E_gQdxxPNY) which is not the case with many other Korean tv shows, although this is a bit like some of those shows where IU showed up with guitar on where there's some talk and a lot of music.
If you're ever interested in a more hectic, typical Korean talk show affair, here's another recent episode with Hyori*, who once was a co-host several years ago. This is an anniversary episode where all the previous and current mcs guest http://youtu.be/UEyB9HudblM - with a fake laugh track (very common, even on good shows). For a long while they had 4 hosts, then they added four sidekick hosts and at that point it all became a bit much for me.
*Also Eugene of S.E.S
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Date: 2012-03-23 02:27 am (UTC)...If it makes you feel better, G-Dragon and Taeyang wanted to be a rap duo. TOP is a mutual friend from middle school who was rapping on his own before joining up. Daesung auditioned as a singer. With the exception of Seungri, the members of this group only "reluctantly" became idols - the story they tell is that the President of their label told them one day that that was how it was going to be, and so, that was how it was.
That said, I still think you have this interview the wrong way around. As
The version of this that Lee Hyori asks, though, is actually not the sanitized idol version e.g. "when do you want to get married?", "what would your ideal girlfriend be like?" It's a more adult version that comes closer to acknowledging who they really are - even if you think, like I do, that the "girl" they talk about might not really be a girl, at least not in every case. (Though Sabina will tell you, I also have a Big Bang theory that says there are gender issues here that have nothing to do with sexuality.)
Especially considering that G-Dragon and Taeyang were child stars and Seungri joined Big Bang when he was 13 - and even TOP has some middle school rap battle footage floating around - there's a real danger of being stuck with a younger image of yourself you've outgrown, I think. Lots of the stuff Big Bang is doing now, including the bunny girls in GD&TOP's videos, GD's androgynous rockstar hair, the more mature sound, etc, is an attempt to outgrow that image and transition to a more adult one. So Lee Hyori is actually, in a way, doing them a favor by semi-following the idol script, but in a way that allows them to counter the public image of themselves that already exists - to actually "grow up" on camera. If that version is maybe a bit sleazy, well, they are 25 year-old rock stars, after all.
As for the danger of more of this stuff... it's actually very low at the moment, because apart from this show (where they also performed) Big Bang aren't scheduled to appear on any variety-show type programs, apart from one that will also have other members of the label. They've never done many of these appearances (by Kpop standards) anyway.
In short it's safe to like these guys as "alternative", but alternative within a mainstream context... personally I think that with every year, Big Bang come closer to pealing more of the mainstream image of themselves away, and in the meantime they've made some really pretty subversive art within that context, including this cellphone commercial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7Co3xha-RM) (which is also an example of "loose sync", which you discussed before).
no subject
Date: 2012-03-23 02:57 am (UTC)EDIT: Also, nice to meet you!
no subject
Date: 2012-03-23 05:47 am (UTC)GD&TOP... do not sound appreciably different in English, I don't know why I expected them to.
no subject
Date: 2012-03-23 12:27 pm (UTC)I think this song has really good lyrics! It's such a good fit for them I now wonder who approached whom on this collaboration.
Besides that I think the same stuff I put here (http://www.thisismyjam.com/subdee): that like you once said about PDoherty, the vocals are now associated with good feelings so I like them automatically; and that Pixie Lott's record company needs to learn how to copyright videos on YTube like YG does so all the views will go to a single uploaded version of this song. This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3feVfOhw0co&feature=related) is my favorite upload though, because I like the promo pictures :p
Also, Pharell Williams is a fan (http://www.gq.com/entertainment/music/201202/pharrell-williams-oscars-music-collaboration-hans-zimmer)? (Of the hats at least.)
no subject
Date: 2012-03-23 01:03 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-03-24 01:58 pm (UTC)In the meantime, welcome.
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Date: 2012-03-24 04:16 pm (UTC)I actually didn't mean to be argumentative either, was more aiming to supplement askbask's comment that this is the latest round in a long-running game. As you can see I have lots of thoughts and this seemed like a good place to put them. Thank you for providing such a good forum!
no subject
Date: 2012-03-28 10:22 pm (UTC)And I wish I didn't see that, but now that I do see it, I kind of don't want to be a part of it? And it's a shame, because I really like the attention to detail in the stage shows (which comes out of the control instinct), the genre-bending in the music (which comes out of the members' distinct tastes and the fact that GDragon writes "for" them), the gender-bending in the MVs (in which an innate femininity is covered up under an exaggeratedly masculine persona, and everyone decides that GDragon can't possibly be a girl/is still cool anyway because he's the "dominant" one), their ability to capture sexual euphoria in music (you read my phone sex theory right? in addition to that, Gdragon reportedly records the other members' vocals over and over until he's satisfied with them LOL), and finally, their strong sense of narrative, which appeals to me as a conspiracy theorist (and which includes post-rush-of-fame songs like Bringing You Love (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_eLIuWHBzA) which are almost better if you think they are about some mindgames/sex games that got way out of hand under the glare of the spotlight).
In other words, according to my sense of what's going on here, the art comes from a messed up place and the messed up place contributes to the art; and I think I could make peace with this if I thought they were moving on, but I'm not sure I really believe they are doing that, or can do that without some major time off to reflect. GD sometimes strikes me as being like a scarily smart five-year-old.
Also, I don't think I would mind if I was just a casual fan, but I also feel like there's no way (for me) to be a casual fan of this group because they're on a conscious quest to addict you to their music with implied inner-group drama, adrenaline rushes, manic euphoria rushes, and phone-sex sounds in the vocals and backing. Honestly I'm probably safer if I just institute a total ban.
Possibly I am just being really dramatic here, but I dunno, I kind of don't think I am. ^^ BTW I don't really blame anyone in the group for being this way, in some ways it seems like they never really had a choice. I kind of blame the CEO of YG entertainment, if anyone. That whole company is starting to feel kind of abusive to me.
Phew. There's my personal essay, off my back XD. BTW I have theories about why the other members "accept" (or enjoy) this treatment, but that's straying way far away from the music. Poke me on gchat sometime, though, if you're interested.
no subject
Date: 2012-03-30 08:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-03-30 08:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-04-05 08:22 pm (UTC)After some reflection, and taking personal feelings out of it, the conclusion I have come to is that this is a group with really serious issues, both individually (mania, dysfunctional families, etc) and collectively (codependency, etc). These are fundamental issues that go all the way to the core of the personality of each member of Big Bang, and maybe can't ever be fully resolved... you sense that they continually attempt to move on but continually end up in the same place.
On the other hand, as artists, they have a strong sense of narrative and they never repeat themselves. They have a consistent sound (electro + whatever genre is being brought in currently), consistent song structure**, and consistently distinct vocals***, but the albums are never the same twice in a row, either in terms of the storytelling or in terms of the sound.
It's also a well known fact that GDragon's hair is never the same for two albums in a row, lol. Seems like a silly thing to comment on but I think appearance is common ground for fans, because you might not be able to talk about what they sound like or what message the music/MVs are sending, or follow a subtle long-running narrative (which is probably not a single narrative anyway), but everyone feels qualified to talk about hair and makeup. :p GDragon got most-attractive member TOP to follow him on the hairstyle change thing starting with their joint record, and second-most-attractive member Seungri (and TOP) to follow him on "masculine crossdress" during the 2011 Tonight promotions - because they look good no matter what they wear? OTOH, for Alive, everyone in the group followed him in changing their hair, including Daesung and Taeyang, who are famously resistant to any kind of change in appearance once they have found something that works for them.
** GD and TOP "talk" to each other in the rap verses, presenting two points of view on the relationship (whichever one is currently under discussion); Taeyang expresses jealousy or regret on the bridge; the other two alternate on the chorus or (if Taeyang has the chorus by himself) present commentary in the verses. (In the dark days of 2009-2011, when all the songs became about how much everyone wanted to sleep with GDragon, Seungri was sometimes written as embroiled in the drama, while Daesung was usually written as maintaining distance from it.)
*** I actually think this is because both GD and the CEO of YG Entertainment sometimes use a "divide and conquer" leadership strategy where you punish one person by pointedly being more affectionate with another person who is currently in your favor. The excluded member is hurt and has to work harder; and in the meantime, fills the affection hole by attracting more attention from fans. Well, this is a kpop strategy in general LOL, which variety show hosts also participate in when they repeatedly ask audience members to pick favorites. It seems to really be a serious psychological issue for Big Bang, though, which they appear to have resolved (consciously or unconsciously) by each member working to carving out a distinct niche group of fans. TOP gets the conventionally attractive girls or shy girls, Seungri gets the less conventionally attractive girls or brash girls, Daesung gets older people of both genders, and Taeyang gets the fanboys, many of whom are international fans (because the shame of being a teen boy in Korea and admitting you like a group like BB is too great, I imagine) and also, sometimes inherits GD's former fans. It's actually a major reoccurring joke-that-is-actually serious that no one ever picks GD as their favorite. I think GDragon gets the new/inexperienced fans, and the crazy ones, haha. Other artists also like him. Anyway, as a further part of their need to differentiate themselves
the way twins would dothey each have a distinct vocal style - what YG Entertainment is now calling a distinct "color" and emphasizing by dressing them all up as cartoon characters. Anyway...no subject
Date: 2012-04-05 09:31 pm (UTC)but everyone feels qualified to talk about hair and makeup. :p
*I* don't feel qualified to talk about hair and makeup. But that doesn't stop me.
It's also a well known fact that GDragon's hair is never the same for two albums in a row, lol.
Sorta like Dylan in the Sixties.
Of course, there are people like Dara and Hyuna who change their hair every ten minutes. Women feel more empowered to do that, I guess (but that's a loaded issue that I have uncertain ideas about, since the "empowerment" may well come from a traditional female lack of empowerment in other endeavors, e.g., finances; which doesn't mean the dazzling manipulation of appearance needs to be abandoned).
no subject
Date: 2012-04-09 12:01 am (UTC)Thinking more about how BB songs don't as much express reality as create reality - and fitting it into the general Kdrama/Kpop urge toward being transparently emotionally manipulative - and the interview where GDragon self-identifies as a "big time S" (when asked to pick between sadist and masochist) - I started thinking that perhaps the point of these songs is to create a really intense emotional experience in others so you can experience it yourself vicariously? (Definition of sadism in the sexual sense.)
Assuming this is true, the point is that pleasure/pain is a more intense experience than either pleasure on its own, or pain on its own.
And going beyond simple ideas of what's abusive or not abusive, perhaps this is one of the reasons BB works (or did work - going on year 7 it would be very surprising if they weren't tired of each other) as a group: because everyone in it, except Seungri, seems more than a little bit depressive? And maybe if you are depressed you accept pain or even welcome it, because feeling something is better than feeling nothing?
BB believe they help people with their music... I know a lot of depressed people who like BB, actually, because when they listen to it they feel alive more than usual (speaking of their current album title).
At the same time, if you are more of a normal person, this can be kind of warping, right: because you are being attuned to this kind of higher threshold of sensation. So maybe this is what people talk about when they say they are "addicted" to Big Bang (though I think part of this is also adrenaline addiction)?
That's sort of the general shape of the emotional response that's being created; but if you look at the content of the music and read between the lines, it's a lot of self-obsession (or obsession with your own emotions, which becomes self-obsession after the spotlight focuses on you); and tied up with that, obsession with relationships and how to keep other people in them after they have gone wrong. Aha.
GDragon especially seems to have been getting at something like this, back in the day: in But I Love You (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuqKAMynv34) he doesn't just pul out all every manipulator's trick trying to get the girl to come back, as if to see which one will stick; but actually manipulates some puppets on stage.
Anyway, it's true about BB songs having this structure where GD and TOP talk to each other on the rap bridge. :p Something else that starts to happen after a while is that everything becomes sexualized - whether that's for marketing or psychological reasons (or both) is anyone's guess. It is one way in which GDragon and the Korean fangirls were able to relate to each other (because fandom and especially K-idol fandom sexualizes everything), and is without a doubt a big reason for their success, especially in Japan (where "Day by Day" - the one where a girl dying of cancer is an excuse for GD and TOP to pleasurably (if you watch the behind the scenes) wrestle with each other - is still their most popular song).
Continued...
no subject
Date: 2012-04-09 12:03 am (UTC)The interesting thing about BB songs is that GDragon writes all of the parts (except for TOP's parts) - or at least, is usually the only person with a songwriting credit. But when you compare the other members' parts to the personality they express in interviews, they sort of match up? So he's either specifically writing for the other members, or they are working on the parts together, but he is finalizing the words and taking the credit.
And I guess I think this is kind of psychologically thorny, because on the one hand he might be able to express something they would like to but can't; on the other he might seem to know them better than they know themselves but actually be shaping their responses; and on the third hand he could be doing the authorial thing, where you write - not reality as it actually is - but reality as you would like it to be. (Bringing this comment around full circle.)
...And then that reality might happen, because this isn't a group that draws a strong line between others' perceptions of them and their own self-perceptions of them. ^^
How much all of this is still true, by the way, and how much they have "moved on" in a more "mature" direction, is anyone's guess -- and this is all my speculation anyway. ^^ Really, sometimes I can't escape the feeling that for all the adult choices these guys are making, GDragon Taeyang and especially TOP are all actually five year olds and GDragon in particular is lashing out at the world because it's not going how he wanted it to. And one reason I think that is that the songs sometimes have, not just slightly different meanings when they are rerecorded in a different language, but actually opposite meanings - there's no one reality, here.
no subject
Date: 2012-04-09 12:15 am (UTC)I kinda of think that part of what GDragon is doing when he switches up his style is looking for a way to express his inner girl; but in a way that avoids him being actually mistaken for a girl, which would mean being taken less seriously. Of course, this is another reason girls like Big Bang: because of the sense of reversed gender roles, where the most "feminine" member is indisputably the group's dominant and dominating personality. (And meanwhile, (foreign?) guys don't even see the feminine, because "power" and "dominance" and "swagger" are so firmly masculine qualities in their minds.)
Or switching up could be a way to express a new "you" and make a new start; or it could just be what's expected of him at this point, lol. The clothes thing is a genuine obsession though: GDragon has to have something to spend all his songwriting $$$ on, and reportedly what he spends it on is high fashion, eg "walking into his room is like walking into a select shop" (says Seungri).
(TOP spends his $$$ on limited-edition toys and a swingin' bachelor pad.)
no subject
Date: 2012-04-14 03:49 pm (UTC)...and also with the Korean fanbase ("VIPs"), to the extent that it's possible to be in a codependent relationship with a diffuse mass of people. (But Kpop fans are very organized and militant, compared to other pop fans.)
Big Bang's style changes, in part, because the other members of Big Bang all have unique and distinct tastes in music; and also because GDragon is chasing trends in the US. (But has generally been a step or two behind: more on this later.)
"Alive" has a bunch of songs that try to address that "control" urge - Blue, Love Dust, and Ain't No Fun are all about letting go. GD&TOP don't have any of their signature joint rap bridges on this album, but TOP is gonna let you know what he thinks about the relationship anyway.
Trying to court an international audience, they've ended up maybe half a step behind in some cases (the triangles on the Alive album packaging; the Brooklyn-set MVs) but right in the middle of the zeitgeist in others (the GIF-able and fanbaiting video for the LMFAO-like Fantastic Baby). Ironically being a step behind the West puts you a step ahead, or just right, in Asia, and their perceived cache outside Korea gives them extra credibility *in* Korea.
How compelling you find all this is gonna depend on whether or not you are the target audience, which is and has always been: teen girls and slash-loving women.
no subject
Date: 2012-04-14 03:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-03-27 10:47 am (UTC)"2NE1 is variety show and talk-phobic. And me! I did my best but the air time is far away…
“We’re not good at talking or going on variety shows, but we’re awesome on the stage! Encouraging myself. When you lose your confidence, just listen to ‘I Am the Best’!"
no subject
Date: 2012-03-27 03:06 pm (UTC)(But she may not be a good judge of how well she did.)