Clueless Uncle In Pieces?

[koganbot]

Remember when we all used to listen to Conway Twitty?

In case you didn't see this piece by David Brooks in the NY Times, it's nothing extraordinary. Even he says the fragmentation of music listening is an old story, but he says it continues on apace.

I like David Brooks a lot of the time. He's like a clueless but friendly and curious uncle. And he takes "hairstyle" seriously ("hairstyle" is my shorthand both for culture that is considered frivolous and for cultural differences).

Actually, in real life I'm a clueless but friendly and curious uncle too. Just clueless on slightly different matters.

So, here's my question. Is this "fragmentation" in fact occurring? If it is occurring, why do we call it "fragmentation" rather than "diversity"? (Steve Kiviat asked this question when we were discussing this issue 15 years ago in Swellsville.)

Here are some hypotheses:

Interconnectedness and knowledge generally increasing in "advanced" nations. General actual differences among different societies decreasing. Knowledge of other cultures increasing. People able to identify with groups outside their immediate face-to-face environment much more. Within that face-to-face environment this can give the appearance of greater "diversity" or "fragmentation," but this doesn't mean that the world overall is getting more socially fragmented.

Music is something of an odd case anyway, where a particular low-status local music of the early 20th century - black and white music of the United States' southeast - absorbed and changed the general popular music it was coming into contact with and created hybrids that swept a good deal of the world. With the rise of this music came the decline of the idea of a stable cultural center, given that this music (1) was made by people who legitimately felt themselves to be outsiders, (2) seemed to be coming from the "outside" to people who hadn't been the primary audience for r&b or country, (3) seemed to be coming from the "outside" to people who still felt themselves to be the primary audience for r&b and country.

My own experience is that it was possible to be a white teenage music fanatic in the 1960s and not know of Conway Twitty's existence, barely know of James Brown's existence, never have heard classics like Little Richard and Bo Diddley and Chuck Berry except for a few cover versions, to have only heard occasional bits of Elvis Presley and to assume that his impact was long over, to have no idea what was happening in contemporary "serious" "classical" music, and so forth.

Other than the ignorance of "classical" music, which continues for later generations, I don't think it's possible for the equivalent teenager (an endlessly curious music fanatic) to be so ignorant of recent and contemporary music that wasn't quite in his neighborhood - this is because other musics would penetrate his neighborhood far more. Where he or she is ignorant, this would be because there is simply far more available to know, not because of "fragmentation" that is restricting access, and not because of any indifference on his or her part.

What do you think?

Comments

[mcatzilut.livejournal.com]

Lex, your music aesthetics kinda evoke Attridge's Singularity of Literature for me. He writes in his section on the End of Ethics that you can't love someone (something) a bit. Love is a full take-on of somethin. You just love it, with the overwhelming overpowering emotion that is assumed by the word. I feel the same way about music in that once you start cutting music apart and trying to figure out which musical genre you like or dislike, you aren't actually loving music. (To quote Jack White: If you don't like the Beatles of Bob Dylan, you don't love music, you love the idea of being a person who loves music - though I'm not being as reductive here. I think you can dislike Dylan and the Beatles, as long as you come to every band with open ears, ready to love it.) In other words, listening to music should be an experience akin to love. Even if you hate guitar music, every guitar song should be approached with the desire that you'll love this one. (If I didn't practice this kind of listening, I wouldn't have heard half the things I love today). Which I think is related to the comparison between you and Reynolds.

Btw, I'm drunk on sparkling wine. WHEEE.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

I hate the Beatles and Dylan! Hate hate hate.

The thing is, amidst my schtick i DO love guitar music, I mean I have professed my love for Hole, YYYs, Ashlee, PJ Harvey et al many a time, ie I can and have approached guitar music with the desire to love it - but a) in practical terms the ensuing low hit rate means there's no sense in me bothering to approach it in the first place - why should I give undue priority to a genre which has historically not pleased me, and which is BUT ONE TINY GENRE in the scheme of things

and b) I am well aware that I have a kneejerk hatred - COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED - of "boys with guitars", but I don't think there's anyone without kneejerk hatreds and blind spots, but I don't think many other people round here are really honest with themselves about it. eg just as I only enjoy guitar music when it conforms to certain standards I set - girly angst - but don't dig it as a genre, I'm sure 99% of poptimists only enjoy hip-hop when it conforms to certain standards (conscious or comedy) - except instead of admitting this they'll blame the hip-hop they don't like.

ie: I am not doing anything which EVERYONE ROUND HERE doesn't do.

("guitar music" = alternative indie blah for these purposes)

I am drunk on TONS OF VODKA! and before that champagne. And I'm only a third of the way through the weekend. aaaagh.

[mcatzilut.livejournal.com]

I have biases, but I think different than the ones you're describing. My biases tend to be emotional ones - so any music that is passionate and risky (emotionally, politically, socially) I tend to enjoy no matter what the musical style. And cold, dead music leaves me... well... cold and dead. So I dislike Spoon and Paris Hilton for practically the same reason. And I like Aly + AJ and Bob Dylan for also the same reason. (This is, as I understand it, very close to Frank's opinion in Real Punks though he's defining his thematic value as "essential," or "searching" or something that I'm having a hard time pinning down at the moment. I'm just looking for the catharsis of risk.)

So I'm just asking what I think the more interesting question is, Lex. Ignoring your stylistic interests (which I think we've pinned down as not being indie music and not being canonized 1960s music), what are your thematic interests? I like Marilyn Robinson AND Theodore Adorno. What's your link?

[And before you dismiss Dylan, he said something very brilliant to Jonathan Lephem - who risks himself in his own way - in RS a year or two ago. He said: It's alive every night, or it feels alive every night. It becomes risky. I mean, you risk your life to play music, if you're doing it in the right.]

[mcatzilut.livejournal.com]

Also, I has moved onto Scotch. Cause the sparkling wine just wasn't getting the job done quickly enough.

[koganbot]

This is, as I understand it, very close to Frank's opinion in Real Punks though he's defining his thematic value as "essential," or "searching" or something that I'm having a hard time pinning down at the moment.

I don't understand this, but I'd say that, of the choices given above, my key thematic value is "or something." (But I am sometimes willing to categorize things on bases that are different from "musical form" and "which demographic listens to it." But I doubt that I have one dominant theme by which I categorize things.)

[mcatzilut.livejournal.com]

I guess I'm thinking of this: "Obviously, I'm identifying hard with teenpop in that just as I don't see a path for the teenpop girls into the future, I don't see a path for myself either - which isn't to say that there's no future for me, or for them, but my path isn't given, my way isn't clear, so we're going to have to invent one."

Or of your comparisons between Ashley and Dylan, where obviously you aren't drawing genre comparisons (or are you?) but rather this thematic sense of "young artists challenging the world" or "balladeers expressing emotion."

[koganbot]

Well, I could draw a standard genre comparison between Ashlee "Whose Name Has Never Contained A Y" Simpson and Dylan - she's a singer-songwriter who likes to rock, for god's sake - or a could even create various Koganesque genre comparisons between the two, Artists Who Can't Find A Pathway, for instance (which is a predicament whether or not it's a theme in their lyrics). I think your word "theme" is what threw me. I don't think I'd use the word "theme" to convey the idea of "drawing parallels between what Spoonie Gee and Mick Jagger are doing," for instance.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

Defining my thematic interests is an ongoing project for me! Which is to say, I don't really know, but it's very much tied up in the styles of what I like: I tend to like performers who sound like either a) they're losing/subsuming themselves in the music, and by the music I mean the texture, the rhythm, the sound (Ciara's 'Oh', Cassie's 'Turn The Lights Off') or b) riding the music as a means to dominating the world (hip-hop braggadocio). But in general I think musical style is a lot more important to my tastes than any cross-genre approach: both the above are heavily dependent on the right sort of style. Maybe my stylistic interests are just summed up by the word STYLE.

(Port again, this afternoon.)

[koganbot]

Still don't know the basis of your antipathy to the early Stones, whom I love and whom I would describe as riding the music as a means of dominating the world while simultaneously running a critique of same (and riding a critique as a means of dominating the world, etc.). I find the Stones and Dylan (mid-'60s versions) very Eminem-like, for instance.

[alexmacpherson.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I have an antipathy to the Stones - I like the idea of them, or at least a gazillion times more than I like the idea of the Beatles, but nothing of the (v little) I checked out hooked me in. Or at least I liked 'Satisfaction' but not as much as the Britney or Bjork/PJ covers, and I hated Exile On Main Street.