Blackjacks

[koganbot]

In the Philippines, the fans of 2NE1 call themselves blackjacks. It took me two hours of Web surfing to find out why ('cause I'm stupid):

21 is the high number in Blackjack.

Watch on YouTube

Dara had moved to the Philippines at age 8 or so, and was already an established figure there - finished 2nd on a TV talent show and acted and sang, though if what's said at Celebrity Info is correct, her career was sputtering - when she moved back to Korea to join 2NE1. Here's her Star Circle Quest audition:

Watch on YouTube

Comments

[descriptivist.livejournal.com]

Actually, Blackjack is the name of 2NE1's official fan club, in Korea and abroad: http://blackjack.yg-2ne1.com/

And the group's official lightsticks, which are those things you see fans waving at K-pop concerts, look like this:

[koganbot]

Love the icon!

[koganbot]

Hmmm, this is what made me single out the Philippines: I noticed Filipinos calling themselves blackjacks on YouTube threads; maybe it was the fact that blackjacks from the Philippines were making a point that they were from the Philippines, whereas blackjacks from Seoul wouldn't have any special motive for saying they were from Korea; and blackjacks from the U.S. and Canada (presumably where most of the posters were from, since these threads were in English) weren't going to make a big deal out of that, either, I guess. And Filipinos are likely to have a greater percentage on English-language K-pop threads on YouTube than would other non-Korean Asians, I assume.

Presumably 2NE1 pays special attention to the Philippines in order to capitalize on Dara's name recognition.

Searching "2NE1 blackjacks" on Google, you first get a lot of hits regarding fan clubs and hoodies, but mentions of the Philippines show up pretty soon (on pp 2 and 3), prior to any other countries, and outnumber other countries, though Google may already be taking into account that last night I searched for "filipino blackjacks." Malaysia shows up on p. 4, 2NE1 greeting their Malaysian fans. (The greeting is all in English, spoken by CL, who sounds totally fluent and speaks in an American accent, though rather slowly. I have no idea where she lived when she was here; I'd like to hear Bom in English - she's lived here more recently - to see if she speaks with a New England accent. I'm from New England but I don't. [I'm no linguist but my guess is that I speak generic east coast American with traces of east coast urban (e.g., I pronounce "gone" as "gawn" rather than "gahn"). But back in school I could find myself sitting in class next to someone who spoke much stronger New England, and then others who seemed more Connecticut urban (a lighter version of New Yawk); this in a town in northeastern Connecticut.]) Japan finally appears on the bottom of p. 4, but by 4 and 5 the Philippines are dominating the hits. I assume this has a lot to do with my searching "blackjacks" rather than "곤봉" or "酒杯" or "ブラックジャック" or "กระบอง," but maybe the designation "blackjack" has caught on more in the Philippines than elsewhere, too. The Philippines and clothing (hoodies) make a comeback on pp 6 and 7, with Singapore and - finally - the U.S. appearing (though the U.S. link doesn't get a functioning site).

I'm finding the same results on YouTube for 2NE1 blackjacks, the Philippines being the very first hit, Indonesia and (presumably) America showing up pretty soon (notice a very Anglo looking Tory as part of this quartet). And there's an Arab country (or someone in the Arab diaspora) and then what I'm guessing is either Brazil or Portugal, w/ one of the dancers making a valiant attempt to match Dara's hair.

Anyway, I'll put this demographic exploration aside for now.

Ah, here's Bom speaking English, no discernible New England in the voice, but definite Korean in the accent. Another clip. And here's an English-language 2NE1 interview in Thailand; CL is the only one who talks much, perhaps 'cause she's the one who has anything to say, or because she's the one who trusts herself in an interview.* And Dara and Minzy don't trust their own English. There's a bit of Asia in CL's voice, but not as much as in Bom's, even if Bom is easier in the language and CL is slower. But CL is not microphone shy. And her relative lack of the Korean accent may be owing to her having learned English younger.

*Same thing happened in an interview in the Manila.

[descriptivist.livejournal.com]

If I may put a linguist's perspective on the English thing, earlier language acquisition definitely results in a reduction of accent as young children can differentiate between sounds that adults may no longer hear (this is why native Japanese speakers who speak English often mix up R and L - they are unable to process the distinction between the two in English, because there is no difference in Japanese) (by distinction I mean: changing one consonant from "mole" to "more" results in two different English words, but in Japanese L and R fall under the same umbrella and are understood as the same). But following 2NE1's international travels on season 2 of 2NE1 TV, I could definitely hear Bom's voice taking on a different accent when she said "Hello" in English - the vowel is correct (the E would be more like an "ae" from a native Korean speaker) as are the L's (though Korean does use L's and R's differently, unlike Japanese). I don't know if I can find a clip right now, but all of season 2 of 2NE1 TV is available with (idiomatic!) English subtitles on 2NE1's Youtube page (http://www.youtube.com/user/2NE1).

It's possible that CL's English is "more accented" than Bom's because she spent more time as a child speaking other languages - Japanese, French. Here's a brief clip of CL speaking French. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVR2UuDJmpw) Not sure how accented it is, but it sounds good to me (an English-accented French speaker) - her "merci" is dead on.

For consistency, I also notice an Asian-sounding accent in the English of Nichkhun of 2PM, who was born in Rancho Cucamonga, CA but spent his childhood in Thailand before moving back to the U.S. as a teenager. Korean fans usually refer to him as Thai, not American, which I think is significant.

I don't think 2NE1 are the most fluent English speakers among Korean idols - that would go to one of the many American-born idols like Nicole of KARA (who appears as a regular guest on a variety show hosting a Password (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Password_(game_show))-like segment, the joke being that her clues will be funnier because her knowledge of Korean isn't that total) or Kevin and Eli of U-Kiss (who were the co-hosts of an English-language program on Korean radio with Xander, now a former U-Kiss member, who famously speaks 7 languages) - but they seem to me to be the most comfortable with being around it. Going back to season 2 of 2NE1 TV, they spend a lot of time in the studio with will.i.am and other producers who speak only in English and give a lot of instructions, and they're clearly speaking to the girls, not an interpreter.

Minzy's English isn't very strong, but she is apparently (almost?) fluent in Japanese, which is why I was surprised that she rapped in English for the Japanese version of "I Am The Best" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuZvSi7LlYE). But raps in Korean songs always seem to get converted to English for the Japanese versions. Is it more difficult to rap in Japanese? I'm not sure. (I stand by my claim that Korean syllables sound "harder" than Japanese though, so maybe it's just more suited to rap.)

[askbask.livejournal.com]

I've always found it funny that Nicole speaks neither English nor Korean fluently, stumbling over words in both languages. Wouldn't name her as the most comfortable speaker, period, but that may have to do with her person rather than her language skills.

There are a ton of Americans in k-pop now, though, so plenty of expertise to pick from.

[koganbot]

Actually think it's Bom's English that's more accented than CL's, even though Bom is probably more fluent in English. And this would confirm what you said earlier; though Bom has more English, she learned it at an older age, so she's got more of an accent.

But just from the little I see, CL is clearly more publicly assertive in any language, probably even in languages she doesn't know. (I mean, more assertive than Bom is.)

[koganbot]

"More accented." Of course, my English and yours and everyone's is accented. But mine's closer to one of the established North American English accents than would be that of someone who learns English after age ten or so (though of course that person's accent would depend in part on the accent of the English he or she learned, but it would also depend on the native language(s) he or she already speaks).

Maybe there are some neighborhoods in the U.S. where "old country" pronunciations become part of that "native language," maybe some Yiddish pronunciations and intonations and sentence structure in parts of New York City in the early 20th century, and Mexican and Puerto Rican Spanish in parts of the U.S.; and German and Scandinavian in parts of the U.S. Don't really know much about it, but, e.g., in Brooklyn in 1900 I'd think the crucial factor wouldn't be whether a kid's parents speak Yiddish but whether the kid's friends speak Yiddish-influenced English (and the kid could be of Italian or Irish ancestry and still pick it up).

Curious if whether, in parts of India and the Philippines, there's a difference between official English and street English.

So, also curious if there's a difference between business English spoken in Korea by Koreans and street English spoken in Korea by Koreans. And I'm fascinated by the fact that the second rapper on a Huckleberry P live freestyle says "I don' know man, gotta go" in English when he gets up and leaves.

[askbask.livejournal.com]

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Wonder Girls continue to do 'activities' in the US without actually releasing anything (it's getting a silly now). Their English level varies quite a lot from member to member.

[askbask.livejournal.com]

The new season of 2NE1 TV just started up. Official channel's got subbed 1st episode uploaded http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwHyzJBIZc