The origin of guilt

[koganbot]

Does anyone know who coined the term "guilty pleasure," or what he or she meant by it?

I think I first ran across it in the late '60s or early '70s, almost certainly in regard to movies, not music - maybe in some British film mag, or from someone like Raymond Durgnat (in which case how he used the term would be pretty interesting, since the guy was fearless about liking other stuff that others had little regard for, so wasn't out to downplay or excuse his own predilections). But please don't use this half-recalled mis-memory to start the rumor that he was the fellow who coined the term. I really don't know.

Btw, I've never associated the term with liking stuff I might actually feel guilty about liking, such as liking something that I associate with pain caused to people I know (Rocket From The Tombs' "Ain't It Fun") or liking music that might actually cause evil in the world (maybe some cocaine-pushing rap) or thinking that the Manson murders may have made "Helter Skelter" more interesting, or liking something that takes glee in violence against women, and so forth (almost all of which I've usually managed to avoid feeling guilty about liking). Maybe there's some crossover to the term's apparent meaning in my sometimes thinking I shouldn't be wasting time on the same old shit that I like in the same old way when I could be expanding myself by exploring the world. But this has more to do with failed work ethic than with a song's status.

Comments

[skyecaptain.livejournal.com]

The way I was exploring a sense of guilt that I *could* associate with music isn't at all what's meant by "guilty pleasure," which is sort of its own phrase. My post about the subject was only meant to say that if we really want to open up the Guilt Gates, we should acknolwedge how powerful guilt actually is as a motivator of behavior and thought (my bigger point is that for me guilt is contextual -- I don't EVER feel guilty listening to music myself, as I feel pretty confident in my abilities to understand what I'm listening to; but I might well feel guilty about playing music in a certain context regardless of how I justify it to myself).

[skyecaptain.livejournal.com]

Track This
On the actual topic -- doing a quick and dirty academic search, it looks like there was a column in Film Comment that ran from the late 70's through the 80's (Andrew Sarris, James Woods, and Paul Schrader all contributed, seemed to be a rotating gig) called "Guilty Pleasures."

Here's Sarris from Sep/Oct 1979:

Coming comparatively late as I do to FILM COMENT's Guilty Pleasures series, I can understand why it has become one of the most popular and most eagerly read features of this publication. What an opportuniy for one-upsmanship! What an excuse for inverted snobbery! What a bonanza for bad taste! My own problem, however, is that I have been doing variations on Guilty Pleasures for many years now, with the result that I have remarkably little left to confess as far as my moviegoing is concerned. Of course, there are many precedents for Guilty Pleasures. Ever since the Academy began anointing selected writings as 'literature,' lists of the ten-most-boring classics have been turning up every semester[...] This is the negative aspect of Guilty Pleasures. An example of the positive aspect is George Orwell's category of "Good Bad Books."

I'll email you a PDF if you like.

Also, do you have any access to university online essay/article libraries? You need some -- email me if yer innarested.

[koganbot]

The proximate cause of my asking this question wasn't your post but Tom's column (though for all I know your post inspired that bit in the column). But I especially like your idea (if you're OK with this rephrasing) that the phrase "guilty pleasure" doesn't cheapen pleasure so much as it cheapens guilt.

Probably not Durgnat at all, then, but possibly someone editing at Film Comment, though that person may have picked it up from elsewhere.

[skyecaptain.livejournal.com]

Quite liked the rephrasing from freakytigger! Even if my post was a sort of inspiration I think it's an idea whose time has come (one that Tom has probably thought about himself before). Guilt is so interesting! Being tee-hee embarrassed to share in front of a group [nice point from justfanoe there -- I think I'm going to start using the phrase "embarrassing pleasures"] is not (usually).

[koganbot]

Er, that was Tom who used the word "cheapens." But you're both going after that idea.

[justfanoe.livejournal.com]

Surely guilty pleasure implies not guilt at actually enjoying it, but potential embarrassment at revealing that you like it to others? Admittedly, this makes it a bit of a misnomer (should be called embarrassing pleasure), but I think it fits in best with the most common usage.