Frank Kogan

i had literally never heard this term till I read it here (repeat LJ outage ensuring i didn't say so sooner)

i am less convinced that there is crossover -- i suspect the absence of good old-time examples on wikip means that it existed at very much at a below-the-radar amateur level, visible in SF communities (maybe at cons? and niche clubs on campus) but *not* emerging onto the actual folk coffee-shop circuit, let alone onto the touring stage or any kind of professionalism

one thing indie means is the professionalisation -- and established routes of discussion-group mediation -- of layers of performance that would have been amateur and (relatively) under-explored back in the day. In other words, while the performance back then certainly happened, it only "mattered" to those watching it; it didn't enter a wider discourse so much (except perhaps retroactively); and I think there's a bit of ex post facto rejigging going on

(which I'm not against; but I think "crossover" is possibly a misleading way to look at it)