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Where "Galaxy," naturally enough, means "Italo" (Top Singles, First Third 2019)
Was going to use the title "Trap Hegemony And The Italotrot Question" because I knew it would make Chuck Eddy smile; but I decided "Where 'Galaxy,' naturally enough, means 'Italo'"* was funnier, though maybe David Frazer will be the only one to smile. David's the person who came up with the genre title "Italotrot" to describe Hong Jinyoung's "Love Tonight." I wouldn't say that "Love Tonight" poses a deep question, really: But why is it this song, a trot song — as opposed to, for instance, a K-pop song ("trot" being Official Old Person's Dance Music in Korea**) — that's pulling into itself deliriously catchy freestyle and Italodisco riffs, as if to declare that being trot is no barrier to incorporating any coin and color that makes Frank Kogan feel good? I mean, this is something K-pop itself used to be so good at, insinuating disco and freestyle and Italopop into itself without making a fuss over it or sounding the least bit retro. K-pop still pulls in music left-hand, right-hand, and back-hand, but it's more of a drag these days. See quasi essay below the list.
In the video Jinyoung turns into a cat, or a cat turns into her. —Yes, T-ara did that too, and so I'm sure have many others, that's what comment threads are for if you're so inclined. (Inclined to tell us of other performers who've turned into cats, that is; not inclined to turn into a cat yourself.)
From China, meanwhile, Rocket Girls 101 "Galaxy Disco," where "Galaxy," naturally enough, means "Italo":
Sounds just like the music on Italodisco comps out of Singapore and Hong Kong that populated the three-for-a-dollar cassette bins in SF's Chinatown back in the '80s and '90s. I'd assumed then that most of the music was produced originally in Italy or Germany (with input from Miami and Toronto and Montreal: Tapps and Lime were all over those stores, Tapps with not-quite-so-cheap compilations of their own), but there'd be remixes and mashups and stuff — an impressive version of "Chirpy Chirpy Cheep Cheep" that in a later day would have been screwed and chopped but this used amphetamines rather than cough syrup — and uncredited performers and unknown vocalists, and I was guessing or hoping that some of the talent was Asian. Anyway, "Galaxy Disco" sounds so much like that stuff*** that I wonder if it's actually a cover. It's so familiar. The sound is spot-on, from the reed-thin riffs to the dental-floss vocals.
Of course, most of what's coming is hip-hop, the so-called trap hegemony of my rejected title: though the list itself — here it is! a playlist followed by the list itself, and more commentary below the cut — starts with gqom [UPDATE: now song 3 on the playlist], which is generally considered more a derivative of house.
1. Heavy-K x Moonchild Sanelly "Yebo Mama"
2. Bhad Bhabie ft. Tory Lanez "Babyface Savage"
3. Jvcki Wai, Young B, Osshun Gum, Han Yo Han "Dding"
4. Hong Jinyoung "Love Tonight"
5. Lil Pump "Butterfly Doors"
6. A Boogie Wit Da Hoodie "Look Back At It"
7. DALsooobin "Katchup"
8. Gasmilla ft. Mr Eazi "K33SHI"
9. Loopy&nafla "Ice King"
10. Marilina Bertoldi "O No?"
11. Rich The Kid "4 Phones"
12. Gunna "Big Shot"
13. KeshYou "Уят емес"
14. Kim Bo Kyung "It's Not Discarded"
15. Lil Pump ft. Lil Wayne "Be Like Me"
16. Gasmilla ft. Kwamz & Flava "Charle Man"
17. Solange "Binz"
18. Brooks & Dunn ft. Luke Combs "Brand New Man"
19. Kidd Kenn "'Next Song' Freestyle"
[UPDATE: Kidd Kenn's "Next Song freestyle" was deleted from YouTube - fortunately, Marcus Life does a reaction vid where he plays the whole thing starting at about 2:07, pretty good fidelity with only a bit of bkgd sound from Marcus.]
20. Rema "Iron Man"
21. Sofi Tukker "Fantasy"
22. Rocket Girls 101 "Galaxy Disco"
23. Bad Bunny "Solo De Mi"
24. Blueface ft. YG "Thotiana (Remix)"
Trap Hegemony:
Back in March I created my latest Eardrums playlist ("Having A Rave-Up With Arling & Cameron," here). I'd originally intended it as a sort of essay on grooves and rave-ups but it morphed into my making the case that current trap and Soundcloud rap is as good or better than any greats of the past at creating a twisty undertow, and right now this is what I'm grabbed by most in music, and what I once upon a time tried and gave up trying to do as a musician. It's not a hegemony that rules my head, exactly — trap and drill and so forth. Emotionally they're a throwback to my late 1970s/early 1980s. Pulling people into a twisted and twisty undertow kind of isn't what I want to do these days in my life or my art. But this is the music with the greatest musical pull out there.
"Love Tonight," as the world's one and only Italotrot song, having nothing whatsoever to do with trap, maybe represents the normal humming-along workaday happiness of music. Maybe there's a question it poses to trap, and trap poses to it, by the two having nothing to do with each other. (Question: do they say anything to each other?)
In "Babyface Savage" Bhad Bhabie's still-young voice is contending with this massive dissonant bass sound, is a small asteroid shining through a massive shadow, makes me think of Ronnie Spector's naked vocals afloat in Phil's vast orchestrations. Anyway, Bhad Bhabie's patter still contains a kid's charm. This maybe explains why it isn't the usual drag, hearing a babyvoice claiming to be the big boss. "I don't play pattycake." It sounds like you could play pattycake, if you wanted.
Kidd Kenn, 15 or 16, is about the same age she is but seems like a young man on the rise in comparison to her tentative teen, probably because he sounds more sly than tough in the cheerful way he worms and slithers around all those grim beats. (And notice the difference between his "Next Song" and DaBaby's brutal, boring original.)
Jvcki Wai – She's socially and politically on a good side, calling for anarchy and calling out capitalism and religion, trying to be smart while not miring herself in worthiness; a lot of it seems like acting out, which maybe helps it not feel like worthiness, and acting out is what you want artists to do, it's their job, some of 'em, some of the time. "Dding" lyrics are comparatively disappointing, too much trap bullshit, ice on the neck and all that though played for a double metaphor (not just diamonds but keeping her head cool while she makes everyone else crazy).
Loopy&nafla: More ice; the video implying that this could be daydreaming and sarcasm like "Gangnam Style"; but maybe that's my wishful thinking and this is just straight-ahead aspiration.
(I'm assigning this stuff in my head to "hip-hop" rather than "K-pop." It seems pretty far from the latter, despite the latter's being saturated in rap.)
Stuff that sounds like other stuff:
A Boogie Wit Da Hoodie "Look Back At It." There's this kind of 5-tone-scale modal warble**** that trap vocalists have been doing, whereas A Boogie Wit Da Hoodie finds his way to a more conventional melody and chord progression. Anyway, even though I used to play and write songs I never really did master chord progressions, so correct me if what I'm hearing is wrong: but "Look Back At It" is from the same tonal stamp as Judy Torres's "Come Into My Arms" and the Pet Shop Boys' "It's A Sin," both of which reminded me back in 1987-88 of Cat Stevens's "Wild World." (So here's a coincidental hip-hop connection to freestyle (Torres) and '80s disco dance (Pet Shop Boys), though via melody rather than riffs or beats.)
Up On Cripple Creek:
Sofi Tukker: I'm sort of up on cripple creek with this duo, except in reverse: I can't take the way they talk but I love to hear 'em sing. (Yeah, okay, I sometimes like the talking a lot (e.g. "Johny"), but I won't let that stand in the way of my wisecrack.)
Historical Essay:
In the late '80s, hip-hop and electronic dance each would crash styles and signifiers into each other like crazy, so Seo Taiji was true to the time in 1992 when he did the same in hatching K-pop; meanwhile in America the early '90s new-jack-swing/hip-hop/r&b moment cooled things down a bit and, for instance, steered away from incorporating freestyle's and Italodisco's delirium of wild riffs and sad melodies into its synthesis. Whereas, Seo Taiji threw the pang and beat techniques of freestyle right atop the new-jack-swing rhythms. But I can't speak with any kind of knowledge or authority on 1990s K-pop overall. My vague sense of east Asian dance in the '90s has Japan incorporating Italy's wild riffage (or Italian producers targeting the Japanese market with "Eurobeat"); and I know for a fact that 1980s Italodisco was a living presence in 1990s Chinese-American bargain bins; and in 1993 Chuli and Miae hit in Korea with "Why You," which surreptitiously sampled American freestyle act the Cover Girls; in any event, by the time I heard of K-pop fifteen years later, freestyle and disco were part of its basic day-to-day language without seeming retro or being particularly pointed to.
I wouldn't say this sound is gone in K-pop, but the feeling kind of is. I hope I'm wrong. This summer I plan to trawl through more of the year's releases, come up with a better earscape. K-pop still has a varied and open palette, but the colors are autumny, mature, to the music's detriment. That's a cliché of course. Maybe I'm just overreacting to my disappointment with the new Oh My Girl track. [Spaceholder for why I don't like the new Oh My Girl track. Also for why I'm not quite on board with Momoland, who are all spring and sunshine and playground and stuff.]
Hanging back in boom and doom:
A phrase from my notes: "hanging back in boom and doom." Refers to trap's strength in being admirably not eclectic — though to say so, I have to claim that Soundcloud rap's grunge fascination is an odd, tunneling into-the-muck eclecticism that counts for some reason as anti-eclectic; ditto J.I.D's bug excavations. And anyway Sexyy Red and A Boogie Wit Da Hoodie and Lil Pump are probably conduits to workaday reengaging with everything else and pull-it-all-in humdrum happiness and unhappiness etc., for better or worse (we'll find out).*****
[UPDATE: I'm posting Chuck's Pazz & Jop Product Reports for January through June in the comments. And in the 4th comment down I've linked some classic "freestyle" tracks for those readers who aren't familiar with the genre and are struggling to make sense of what I mean by that term and by the term "Italodisco."]
*And "first third" equals "first five-twelfths," just as it did last year.
**Again, I'm talking through my hat here (a straw fedora) regarding my "knowledge" of who listens to trot and how this is viewed in Korea.
***Other than the words being Chinese rather than English, and a K-poppy rap in the middle. Subject For Further Research: David informs me that Asia in the '80s did indeed create vintage Italodisco; he's found several examples (Jessie from Taiwan, Crapas and Bunny Girls from South Korea) at the ultradiskopanorama YouTube channel. I'd expect a lot more was produced. Japan?
****I don't really know what that phrase means but I hope Dave Moore shows up in the comments to explain it to me.
*****I'm referencing acts on my last year's list (which still hasn't gotten my writeup), and some of their last-year's tracks may get on some people's or even my own this-year's lists as album tracks get their singles and singles get their vids and so forth.
Hong Jinyoung "Love Tonight"
Heavy-K x Moonchild Sanelly "Yebo Mama"
In the video Jinyoung turns into a cat, or a cat turns into her. —Yes, T-ara did that too, and so I'm sure have many others, that's what comment threads are for if you're so inclined. (Inclined to tell us of other performers who've turned into cats, that is; not inclined to turn into a cat yourself.)
From China, meanwhile, Rocket Girls 101 "Galaxy Disco," where "Galaxy," naturally enough, means "Italo":
Sounds just like the music on Italodisco comps out of Singapore and Hong Kong that populated the three-for-a-dollar cassette bins in SF's Chinatown back in the '80s and '90s. I'd assumed then that most of the music was produced originally in Italy or Germany (with input from Miami and Toronto and Montreal: Tapps and Lime were all over those stores, Tapps with not-quite-so-cheap compilations of their own), but there'd be remixes and mashups and stuff — an impressive version of "Chirpy Chirpy Cheep Cheep" that in a later day would have been screwed and chopped but this used amphetamines rather than cough syrup — and uncredited performers and unknown vocalists, and I was guessing or hoping that some of the talent was Asian. Anyway, "Galaxy Disco" sounds so much like that stuff*** that I wonder if it's actually a cover. It's so familiar. The sound is spot-on, from the reed-thin riffs to the dental-floss vocals.
Of course, most of what's coming is hip-hop, the so-called trap hegemony of my rejected title: though the list itself — here it is! a playlist followed by the list itself, and more commentary below the cut — starts with gqom [UPDATE: now song 3 on the playlist], which is generally considered more a derivative of house.
1. Heavy-K x Moonchild Sanelly "Yebo Mama"
2. Bhad Bhabie ft. Tory Lanez "Babyface Savage"
3. Jvcki Wai, Young B, Osshun Gum, Han Yo Han "Dding"
4. Hong Jinyoung "Love Tonight"
5. Lil Pump "Butterfly Doors"
6. A Boogie Wit Da Hoodie "Look Back At It"
7. DALsooobin "Katchup"
8. Gasmilla ft. Mr Eazi "K33SHI"
9. Loopy&nafla "Ice King"
10. Marilina Bertoldi "O No?"
11. Rich The Kid "4 Phones"
12. Gunna "Big Shot"
13. KeshYou "Уят емес"
14. Kim Bo Kyung "It's Not Discarded"
15. Lil Pump ft. Lil Wayne "Be Like Me"
16. Gasmilla ft. Kwamz & Flava "Charle Man"
17. Solange "Binz"
18. Brooks & Dunn ft. Luke Combs "Brand New Man"
19. Kidd Kenn "'Next Song' Freestyle"
[UPDATE: Kidd Kenn's "Next Song freestyle" was deleted from YouTube - fortunately, Marcus Life does a reaction vid where he plays the whole thing starting at about 2:07, pretty good fidelity with only a bit of bkgd sound from Marcus.]
20. Rema "Iron Man"
21. Sofi Tukker "Fantasy"
22. Rocket Girls 101 "Galaxy Disco"
23. Bad Bunny "Solo De Mi"
24. Blueface ft. YG "Thotiana (Remix)"
Trap Hegemony:
Back in March I created my latest Eardrums playlist ("Having A Rave-Up With Arling & Cameron," here). I'd originally intended it as a sort of essay on grooves and rave-ups but it morphed into my making the case that current trap and Soundcloud rap is as good or better than any greats of the past at creating a twisty undertow, and right now this is what I'm grabbed by most in music, and what I once upon a time tried and gave up trying to do as a musician. It's not a hegemony that rules my head, exactly — trap and drill and so forth. Emotionally they're a throwback to my late 1970s/early 1980s. Pulling people into a twisted and twisty undertow kind of isn't what I want to do these days in my life or my art. But this is the music with the greatest musical pull out there.
"Love Tonight," as the world's one and only Italotrot song, having nothing whatsoever to do with trap, maybe represents the normal humming-along workaday happiness of music. Maybe there's a question it poses to trap, and trap poses to it, by the two having nothing to do with each other. (Question: do they say anything to each other?)
In "Babyface Savage" Bhad Bhabie's still-young voice is contending with this massive dissonant bass sound, is a small asteroid shining through a massive shadow, makes me think of Ronnie Spector's naked vocals afloat in Phil's vast orchestrations. Anyway, Bhad Bhabie's patter still contains a kid's charm. This maybe explains why it isn't the usual drag, hearing a babyvoice claiming to be the big boss. "I don't play pattycake." It sounds like you could play pattycake, if you wanted.
Kidd Kenn, 15 or 16, is about the same age she is but seems like a young man on the rise in comparison to her tentative teen, probably because he sounds more sly than tough in the cheerful way he worms and slithers around all those grim beats. (And notice the difference between his "Next Song" and DaBaby's brutal, boring original.)
Jvcki Wai – She's socially and politically on a good side, calling for anarchy and calling out capitalism and religion, trying to be smart while not miring herself in worthiness; a lot of it seems like acting out, which maybe helps it not feel like worthiness, and acting out is what you want artists to do, it's their job, some of 'em, some of the time. "Dding" lyrics are comparatively disappointing, too much trap bullshit, ice on the neck and all that though played for a double metaphor (not just diamonds but keeping her head cool while she makes everyone else crazy).
Loopy&nafla: More ice; the video implying that this could be daydreaming and sarcasm like "Gangnam Style"; but maybe that's my wishful thinking and this is just straight-ahead aspiration.
(I'm assigning this stuff in my head to "hip-hop" rather than "K-pop." It seems pretty far from the latter, despite the latter's being saturated in rap.)
Stuff that sounds like other stuff:
A Boogie Wit Da Hoodie "Look Back At It." There's this kind of 5-tone-scale modal warble**** that trap vocalists have been doing, whereas A Boogie Wit Da Hoodie finds his way to a more conventional melody and chord progression. Anyway, even though I used to play and write songs I never really did master chord progressions, so correct me if what I'm hearing is wrong: but "Look Back At It" is from the same tonal stamp as Judy Torres's "Come Into My Arms" and the Pet Shop Boys' "It's A Sin," both of which reminded me back in 1987-88 of Cat Stevens's "Wild World." (So here's a coincidental hip-hop connection to freestyle (Torres) and '80s disco dance (Pet Shop Boys), though via melody rather than riffs or beats.)
Up On Cripple Creek:
Sofi Tukker: I'm sort of up on cripple creek with this duo, except in reverse: I can't take the way they talk but I love to hear 'em sing. (Yeah, okay, I sometimes like the talking a lot (e.g. "Johny"), but I won't let that stand in the way of my wisecrack.)
Historical Essay:
In the late '80s, hip-hop and electronic dance each would crash styles and signifiers into each other like crazy, so Seo Taiji was true to the time in 1992 when he did the same in hatching K-pop; meanwhile in America the early '90s new-jack-swing/hip-hop/r&b moment cooled things down a bit and, for instance, steered away from incorporating freestyle's and Italodisco's delirium of wild riffs and sad melodies into its synthesis. Whereas, Seo Taiji threw the pang and beat techniques of freestyle right atop the new-jack-swing rhythms. But I can't speak with any kind of knowledge or authority on 1990s K-pop overall. My vague sense of east Asian dance in the '90s has Japan incorporating Italy's wild riffage (or Italian producers targeting the Japanese market with "Eurobeat"); and I know for a fact that 1980s Italodisco was a living presence in 1990s Chinese-American bargain bins; and in 1993 Chuli and Miae hit in Korea with "Why You," which surreptitiously sampled American freestyle act the Cover Girls; in any event, by the time I heard of K-pop fifteen years later, freestyle and disco were part of its basic day-to-day language without seeming retro or being particularly pointed to.
I wouldn't say this sound is gone in K-pop, but the feeling kind of is. I hope I'm wrong. This summer I plan to trawl through more of the year's releases, come up with a better earscape. K-pop still has a varied and open palette, but the colors are autumny, mature, to the music's detriment. That's a cliché of course. Maybe I'm just overreacting to my disappointment with the new Oh My Girl track. [Spaceholder for why I don't like the new Oh My Girl track. Also for why I'm not quite on board with Momoland, who are all spring and sunshine and playground and stuff.]
Hanging back in boom and doom:
A phrase from my notes: "hanging back in boom and doom." Refers to trap's strength in being admirably not eclectic — though to say so, I have to claim that Soundcloud rap's grunge fascination is an odd, tunneling into-the-muck eclecticism that counts for some reason as anti-eclectic; ditto J.I.D's bug excavations. And anyway Sexyy Red and A Boogie Wit Da Hoodie and Lil Pump are probably conduits to workaday reengaging with everything else and pull-it-all-in humdrum happiness and unhappiness etc., for better or worse (we'll find out).*****
[UPDATE: I'm posting Chuck's Pazz & Jop Product Reports for January through June in the comments. And in the 4th comment down I've linked some classic "freestyle" tracks for those readers who aren't familiar with the genre and are struggling to make sense of what I mean by that term and by the term "Italodisco."]
*And "first third" equals "first five-twelfths," just as it did last year.
**Again, I'm talking through my hat here (a straw fedora) regarding my "knowledge" of who listens to trot and how this is viewed in Korea.
***Other than the words being Chinese rather than English, and a K-poppy rap in the middle. Subject For Further Research: David informs me that Asia in the '80s did indeed create vintage Italodisco; he's found several examples (Jessie from Taiwan, Crapas and Bunny Girls from South Korea) at the ultradiskopanorama YouTube channel. I'd expect a lot more was produced. Japan?
****I don't really know what that phrase means but I hope Dave Moore shows up in the comments to explain it to me.
*****I'm referencing acts on my last year's list (which still hasn't gotten my writeup), and some of their last-year's tracks may get on some people's or even my own this-year's lists as album tracks get their singles and singles get their vids and so forth.
Hong Jinyoung "Love Tonight"
Heavy-K x Moonchild Sanelly "Yebo Mama"
no subject
I wouldn't say the development with Seungri was not surprising at all... personally speaking, I was surprised both that Seungri was being charged with actual crimes as part of a criminal network and not just individual assault or dubious consent (like for example SHINee's Onew); and also that said criminal network was actually being investigated and exposed by the police. However, after the initial shock wears off the mind goes into overdrive to provide context and there are lots of (publicly available) clues that the industry has always been like this.
For example, Seungri's been known for his "party lifestyle" for a while, it's been shown on TV in a sanitized way; other Big Bang members frequently comment on it in interviews and specifically mention how they expect it to one day be the end of Big Bang. Seungri always seems displeased to have to defend himself on TV and promises to be "careful" which obviously just means being discrete and hiding the evidence. He was previously involved in another scandal about teachers "dating" students at the idol school with his name on it, but was able to distance himself by playing the absent owner card and continue as usual after shutting down the school.
Big Bang in particular has a reputation for living a more wild lifestyle than other idols, and getting away with more because of their fans "shielding" them (because of course the stalker fans have probably known about this for years). Many years ago when GD and TOP were still clubbing with Seungri this might have affected them too, they have been more private and less in the public eye for a while now though. As for the "shielding" culture, mostly these secrets stay within the Korean fandom but every now and then they get out. For example, the (now shut down) website Big Bang Updates would periodically post a screenshot from some Big Bang groupchat that seemed to show evidence of the Big Bang members bullying (or maybe just ragging on - depending on your perspective) each other, but these screenshots would generally be deleted fairly quickly if they got any negative attention.
I'm not at all equating Seungri's criminal actions with these individual morality transgressions BTW, this is why I said I was pretty surprised by the extent of his actual crimes.
Moving beyond Seungri, however, you always hear rumors about a network of older male idols who take advantage of young female idols and the "sponsor" system. Certain older male idols (like Seungri, and also a few Super Junior members) have a bad reputation for serial "dating" of younger idols over whom they are in a position of power. Girls Day Hyeri "dating" Tony An (of Gen One idol group H.O.T.) is one example. Especially that the "dating" rumors became public just after she became of legal age and at around the same time Girls Day started getting popular and Hyeri in particular started getting a lot of exposure, raised a lot of eyebrows. Lots of Girls Gen members have sponsorship rumors, though with rich businessmen, not fellow entertainers; I'd have to go specifically looking for details if you want them because it's been a while since I've actively followed the rumors.
On the website Ask A Korean, it's been mentioned a few times that being an idol has not been seen as a "legit" career until very very recently since historically, the entertainment scene is associated with gangsters (for men) and prostitutes (for women). This is just something you'd expect if you were an older Korean following the industry. On a related note, there is a high rate of prostitution and sexual assault against women in S. Korea in general, related to their history as a colonized state and the large American army base in Seoul.
So yeah in general, this is a case where the details are surprising but it's something you can fit into a general framework you've been hearing about for years, in the form of rumors and innuendo.
no subject
Girls Day Hyeri "dating" Tony An (of Gen One idol group H.O.T.) is one example. Especially that the "dating" rumors became public just after she became of legal age and at around the same time Girls Day started getting popular and Hyeri in particular started getting a lot of exposure, raised a lot of eyebrows.
This is the wrong thing to start with, but I was like, oooooh is that what happened? I had been skeptical about it in a different direction -- I'd figured it was basically media play for Tony Ahn to get some glow from a hot brand and also distract people from his gambling issues. Out of curiosity, I looked it up, and Hyeri was born in June 1994, making her 19 (Western age) / 21? (Korean age) in April 2013, which is when Soompi carried the news reports of them dating. So your memory is spot-on. (But her Real Men appearance wasn't for a year after that.)
anyway. yeah, I think it was the scale of Seungri's crimes that prompted my surprise; "low-level scumbag" was much more guessable than "multinational pimp." The other day I looked back through my fandom journal, and found the conversations with close Inspirit friends in which we force-ranked Infinite members by likelihood that they would willingly participate in sexual exploitation (I'm making it sound more light-hearted than it was). I think personally I was keeping for myself the fantasy (??) that while idols might not do much to resist the exploitation that was thrown at them -- for example, male idols being fine with it if the company provides them with prostitutes -- they wouldn't go above and beyond non-resistance, as it were. Or at least the ones I cared about wouldn't.
For example, Seungri's been known for his "party lifestyle" for a while, it's been shown on TV in a sanitized way...
ugh you hit the nail on the head right here, something I've been struggling with for ages. There's this whole "what you see on TV / variety shows / VLives is all sanitized and manufactured" line of argument, and I get it, and on the other hand idols are simply on TV / YouTube / VLive / etc. too often, and usually aren't good enough actors, for some truth to leak through. I spent a chunk of time I don't care to quantify close-watching Infinite's Showtime and arguing with a friend over how much we could actually say the guys were being "themselves," given variety show, etc., etc. So I guess the question would be: if you're a fan who wants to avoid giving affection to idols who turn out to be criminal misogynist shits, is reading the variety / VLive tea leaves even possible? And I don't know. (One Inspirit friend of mine has now pretty much given up on following male performers altogether.)
btw I know John Lie wrote about prostitution in 20th-century Korea before he wrote about K-pop, though I haven't gone over his papers yet.
no subject
If it was media play for Tony it was really weird media play... you can't trust netizenbuzz because they cherry-pick comments to translate in order to portray netizens a certain way but I remember the reaction being almost uniformly negative. There's a 16 year age gap between Tony and Hyeri. As far as the sponsorship rumors go, Girls' Day was almost a dead group before they had that unexpected string of hits with Expectation-Female President-Something (and you bet those songs capitalized on the fact that all members of the group were now legal). I don't know, it's circumstantial but suspicious all the same. Again I don't really have receipts for a lot of this, just years of rumors and innuendo.
Wow, I don't know if I could make a list like that for a group I liked... that would be so depressing. The interesting thing about Seungri is that he was very skilled at making himself out to be the victim... like the other members of Big Bang would mention on some TV show that he'd been called before the CEO again to apologize for yet another transgression with women and Seungri would make the whole thing into a joke about how he got yelled at again, while totally sidestepping the issue of what his transgressions were in the first place.
Pretty much with this group, I'd always assumed they told the truth, but not the whole truth; but I don't really know anymore. When you have a whole group of former child stars that's what happens, everyone has an almost instinctive feel for how to give just enough away for it to feel real but nothing that would actually get them in trouble. Seungri in particular was always accused of making up stories for TV. All this time it kinda looked like he was being bullied by the others, now the bullying rumors actually make the rest of them look better.
BUT, lest you think I am saying they are off the hook bc they called Seungri out on TV, I also remember Taeyang (for one) mentioning in at least one interview that Seungri was the guy you went to when you wanted to arrange a hook up. He did it with a smarmy look and GD and maybe TOP... I can't really remember, agreed. I guess it seemed implied that Seungri would just go up to whatever starstruck girl at the party and arrange something for you using fame as a hook but of course it's a lot more sinister now.